Don’t forget the First Hill streetcar community open house tonight starting at 6pm in Seattle Central Community College. It doesn’t say a specific room but the meetings are usually at the southern end of the building and are well marked.
Details:
- Tuesday, December 15, 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., Seattle Central Community College (1701 Broadway)
- Wednesday, December 16, 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., Yesler Community Center (917 E Yesler Way)
- Thursday, December 17, 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., Union Station (401 S Jackson Street)
The Seattle Streetcar website has more details.
Our coverage includes Offical Drawings, 11th Ave Rumor and Details, 12th Ave Couple is a Bad Idea, First Hill Funding Agreement, …and much much more.
View 11th Ave in a larger map
Someone at CHS said that the room is 1110.
I am looking at all the maps with all the routes on them …
can we have them all? or at least the boren-minor AND the Broadway route? 2 for 1 deal?
to whomever can attend … please push integration with the Waterfront Line (which will hopefully be restarted in the future)
That really isn’t a concern here. There’s nothing they’ll do that would hurt later integration.
But that is the thing, it IS a concern to people. If you look at most of the streetcar posts we’ve had, 40 to 70% of those become related to the Waterfront Streetcar.
The First Hill Streetcar should accommodate the Waterfront Streetcar cars and maintenance and the line should be put back into service. There is still several years left before the Viaduct gets torn down, how about we get rid of that silly bus and start running what we paid for in the first place which had a higher farebox recovery than the 2-5 people that ride the bus.
This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is a no brainer, we have the track, we have the cars (6!!), we still have the electrical infrastructure, yet we continue to sit on our hands and do nothing.
I think I read here that the waterfront car was a different voltage system, no? The waterfront sc should be reimagined, not resurrected.
The Waterfront cars are 600V DC, the SLUT is 750V DC, and I believe the ETBs are 700V DC. To some extent the voltages are close enough to mix but it isn’t optimal and may cause damage.
On the other hand the cars for the Waterfront Streetcar could probably use a rebuild anyway at which point they could be switched to the ETB voltage or whatever the First Hill line is using.
Waterfront line never should have been shut down. But Broadway and Central District lines can solve major problem for the Waterfront line: a maintenance facility. Incidentally, do current plans include any thoughts at all about where the “car-barn” is going to go?
I’m in the “12th is great, but just not now” camp. I have a Late, Dark Horse entry alignment idea.
Somebody please explain why we’d need a multi-million dollar transit line going anywhere near the 40-65′ zoned 12th Avenue neighborhood? The same 12th with SFH a half block off? The spendy restaurants? A sprawly private school or two? The one story liquor store? Baseball fields? …
Setup:
I’ve heard many complaints that turns were bad – for timing and for cost. 11th route contains extra turns, as does Minor/Seneca/Boren/Madison/12th etc etc. Apparently speed is a higher concern than interconnectivity to other transit (judging from the north-to-south travel times posted on all the materials at the mtg). Not sure I agree, but I’ll play along for now. Also heard (and have read) much kvetching about the traffic on Boren, Madison and Broadway. Agreed: they are slow-during-congestion-hours routes for streetcar’ing. (However I would hope a well-aligned streetcar would take a bite out of some of that traffic). Also much worry about water mains on 12th, and less so, on B’way. Also: streetcar can do hills that people might otherwise be willing to walk (gets lazy drivers off roads); so streetcars and hills go together so long as the hills aren’t too steep. Streetcars and retail zones go together too. Okay, hearing all that.
So… got me thinking/brainstorming.
Here’s my late entry pitch for an entirely different route that remains true to serving First Hill AND keeps the total track miles & turns down (perhaps affording that North-of-John retail-core leg?) –
What if there was an idea for a route that promises the most density, both current and potential, and also makes no 90 degree turns between Yesler Terrace and John & Broadway!? Without going on or crossing Broadway (mostly), and without crossing or turning on Boren! In my mind there ought to be no loops (STB’s Adam has made the argument on that solidly), but SDOT can add turnarounds if they must.
Imagine this, double-tracked: 1. King Street EB to 12th (split the difference between Jackson and Weller and just run up/down King. Keep Jackson dedicated to bicycles, and the bike crossing at 12th with be solidly perpendicular).
2. 12th NB to Boren
3. Boren NW to Yesler
4. WB on Yesler (to pick up the Yesler Terrace community/planned development: all the SDOT plans seem to agree this is wise)
5. NB on Broadway to Minor (SDOT already has Minor identified as a viable route)
6. NW/NB on Minor. ALL the way up to Union/Pike. (Manhattan blocks with this orientation = much more “coverage” of the overlay district, i.e. more total city blocks within 4 blocks walking distance when you eliminate the corners, translating to maximum ridership from First Hill)
7. Keep on the same road: Minor becomes Bellevue: NB on Bellevue Ave (there’s a slight right curve here)
8. NB from Bellevue to NNE on Olive Way. (Curving right again, and a few more times as it swings to an EB orientation)
9. NE on Olive way to Broadway & John (up a long but not steep hill, through much retail)
PRO:
Doesn’t need to wait for Link construction, doesn’t mess up the watermains on 12th or Broadway, drives right through the heart of First Hill and the only HR/240-300′ zoning outside downtown, does not cross Boren (N of B’way)or try to turn from it, has zero hard turns after making the corner at Yesler community center so it’d be fast, maximizes manhattan-blocks ridership / overlay zone, gives some love to both Pike/Pine UV district and Capitol Hill ‘hood, could also be a decent way to get to WSCTC (depending on stop placement: a Minor & Union stop would serve WSCTC, VirgMason, and NW school quite nicely… not to mention the SixArms/Victrola ), and serves THOUSANDS more potential residents and employers while still being handy for Seattle U AND on Swedish’s doorstep. Also achieves sugardaddy ST’s goals of regionally connecting First Hill and its ’employment centers’ to the two Light Rail stations at each end, while locally connecting 4 or 5 Seattle urban villages.
(Don’t tell me you wouldn’t love a streetcar on Olive Way, right up the middle of the Olive pubcrawl and connecting the new peapatch park? Just need to extend service hours to 230am for the fri/sat nights).
CONS: I’m sure they are ample folks here to fill this part in. go ahead, shoot the holes in it now, if you must. Just don’t try and tell me 12th ave is on FH and I’ll listen with an open mind.