Rendering of the future Stride station at 104th Ave NE in Bothell (image: Sound Transit)

Sound Transit has kicked off a new online open house for its future BRT service along SR 522 and NE 145th street, known as the Stride S3 line. The service, which was funded by the 2016 Sound Transit 3 ballot measure, will run from Bothell to the Seattle-Shoreline border along SR 522 and NE 145th street. From here, riders will be able to transfer to Link Light Rail for fast and frequent service to UW and downtown Seattle, and this service will replace Sound Transit Express route 522 when it opens.

There aren’t a lot of major changes to the project since the summer 2020 update, which brought the Bothell transit hub. There is a new interactive map, which shows in detail many elements of the project, such as the route, station locations, and roadway changes for BRT service. There are also some updates to smaller details of the project, such as property updates and changes to the roadway widening plans for both SR 522 and NE 145th Street.

There are no updates to the proposed bus service to Woodinville. The preferred solution is still an all-day ST Express route connecting Woodinville P&R to the Bothell transit hub, with continuing service to Bellevue Transit Center in the peak. Sound Transit notes that the Woodinville route has potential to serve additional stops in downtown Woodinville, and there will be opportunities to provide feedback on this in due course.

Finally, there are going to be four public meetings next month detailing the preliminary designs for each city in which the service will operate. These meetings will take place over Zoom; registration links are provided.

46 Replies to “Sound Transit wants your feedback on the Stride S3 line”

  1. I notice that they’ve swapped out a couple stops for a new one (I think this happened with the previous update, but I didn’t notice it). There won’t be a stop at Lake City Way and 145th, nor will there be a stop at 25th and 145th. Instead, there will be a stop at 30th and 14th. I’m not sure why they did that. There is a brand new development to the east (with a bunch of townhouses). They will have to walk an extra five minutes (on top of their walk to the corner) to access this bus. Other than that, though, there isn’t much there. Nor is there much around 25th. I guess this is Sound Transit ignoring possible transit oriented development. Of course they can always shift things around later (it isn’t that expensive to move bus stops).

    It does complicate things a bit when it comes to interacting with buses that run from Lake City. There are a lot of moving pieces with that, so I think I’ll put that in a different comment.

    1. I noticed that and wondered how much of a concern it is. I assume it’s for the left turn: Metro has been eliminating stops a block before a left turn, like the Pine & 4th stop, which buses turning left no longer make. (That means you have to ask the driver if it will stop at 4th, because some buses do and some don’t. Never mind that it’s the biggest transfer point in the network.)Most of the walk-on riders will be from around Lake City Way south of 145th, so this adds a couple blocks. But there are dense low-income apartments west of LCW so it won’t be as long a walk for then.

      1. The plan was to put the stop after the left turn (on Lake City Way). You can see that by clicking on the “Past design (10% design 2019)”. Anyway, you are about 30th — it is the center of things.

  2. Here I was hoping they might actually be giving out a few crumbs of detail of plans for the Burien-Bellevue line.

  3. The perfect route would be an extension to Shoreline C.C. along 145th, with stops at: Aurora Ave / Greenwood Ave / Shoreline CC.

    Right now, there’s no legitimate east-west route that spans across I-5 to/from SR522 (with the exception of the poorly performing route 330 that runs at bizarre times). So getting to Lake City area is a pain for anyone not on a bus route that serves Northgate. An extension to Shoreline would also make the college much more accessible for riders who don’t live along the Greenwood corridor…. a much improvement rather than having to travel to Aurora Village to catch the 331 or 130th St to catch the 345 (or make a long 20 min walk from the E-line)

    1. A full east-west route would be nice. However, there is something comforting about having a bus idling at the Link station.

      If the beginning point remains at Shoreline South, I would hope that a departure clock that can be viewed from an existing train rider can be created. Since the station has no down escalators, it will be a stress-inducing event for riders getting off the train hurrying to make the bus. I expect people tripping and tumbling down stairs.

    2. I agree totally, but that doesn’t seem to be in the plans at all. I hope they look at this in the future though, as one of the advantages of truncating a corridor at Link is that the route can continue beyond it in a way that wouldn’t have made sense before. Reliability concerns can be addressed by adding 5 minute schedule padding at the Link station for eastbound trips. It’s a solution that works, and if it doesn’t then add more schedule padding. I’ve had the same idea for the other end in Woodinville, but seeing how that’s being handled, it seems like ST is not that interested in this kind of adjustment.

      1. Exactly. At least some westbound runs should loop through the drop-off and then continue up Fifth NE to 155th then turn west there to Shoreline CC for the actual layover. As you say, a timepoint at Shoreline South can ensure that transfers from Link are made efficiently.

        I don’t know exactly how to make having some continue while others turn back would work. There would need to be an even number of headway periods elapsed between the time the bus left for Shoreline and the time it returned.

      2. At least some westbound runs should loop through the drop-off and then continue up Fifth NE to 155th then turn west there to Shoreline CC for the actual layover.

        Metro sends the 65 that way in 2025 (http://www.kcmetrovision.org/plan/service-map/). I do the same thing in my proposal (https://tinyurl.com/58e5x9fh). I also add a bus for 145th (albeit a less frequent one).

        It is still not ideal. Aurora Village to Kenmore is still awkward. At best it is a two seat ride, but it my be a three seat one (it is under Metro’s plan). If they extended this to Greenwood it would make it much easier to get to Kenmore/Bothell. That being said, at least a three seat ride would be fast and frequent (Swift/Link/Stride or E/65/Stride).

    3. East King is paying for it, and East King is looking for a successor to the downtown expresses. It doesn’t see Shoreline CC or Aurora as benefitting it, and assumes only a few people would ride it to there. The station location precludes it ever continuing straight west because the station is two blocks north of 145th. This is one of a long line of substandard station locations that miss opportunities.

      However, for riders going west, the 65 extension in Metro Connects goes to Shreline CC and 155th & Aurora. The 145th-Whittier Heights-Ballard-Magnola route crosses Aurora & 145th.

      1. I wouldn’t say the station is inconvenient for this, but I wouldn’t say it forever precludes an extension. Making riders sit through a diversion is bad in general, but makes sense if a large enough portion of riders use that stop rather than continue. This diversion seems comparable to route 181 leaving 320th Street to go to the Federal Way TC.

        In this case, even for riders who need to stay on the bus through the Link stop, they will most likely still have a faster ride than having to transfer to another bus. The time going to Link and back is also offset somewhat by the quicker trip from BRT.

      2. As for funding, that shouldn’t be an issue if North King really wanted it (which it should). ST gets partial funding from subareas for some projects, I see no reason why that can’t be done here unless the ST3 measure says it can’t.

      3. I don’t think this is a “who is paying for it” problem. Shoreline is in North King just as much as Seattle & Lake Forest Park. I believe S3 is joint East & North King project? The subarea equity report assigns the capital to both (see page 2 https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019-subarea-equity-report.pdf ), and I’d imagine O&M will also be shared. This is in contrast to STX, where ST pays for 100% of routes that serve North and East.

        Instead, I think it has to do with the transit center at Shoreline South. Because of the bus layover infrastructure, it is logical place for ST and KCM to terminate routes. Here, a good comp would be the Northgate TC; some routes like the 41 ‘pass through’ Northgate but most terminate at the TC because its a good place for drivers to rest and routes to recover. I think we will see the same thing here – some routes will pass through, but most will leverage the TC as a termination point. The vast majority of the riders will be heading to/from Link, and the remaining riders will have a strong transfer to other destinations, of which Shoreline CC is one of many.

        It’s the same story on the other end of the route. Yes, Stride could continue to Woodinville, but it makes more sense to terminate at the transit center and let another route handle trips beyond the terminus. Or why doesn’t Stride 405N continue from Lynnwood TC to terminate at Edmonds CC? I guess it could, but a stronger system terminates at the Link TC and leaves the other leg for another routes. It’s not that the trip onward is unimportant – CT is going to run a SWIFT route between Edmonds CC and Lynwood station – but that Link stations with off-street bus facilities are usually the best place to terminate major routes.

      4. “Shoreline is in North King just as much as Seattle & Lake Forest Park.”

        Good catch, Stride 3 is in North King from the Kenmore-LFP border to Link. I don’t know where to look up what percent North King is paying. But it could be zero since most of the political demand for the line comes from Kenmore, Bothell, and Woodinville, and North King wouldn’t have prioritized it on their own, not with so many higher-priority needs.

      5. “I don’t know where to look up what percent North King is paying.”

        Yeah, when it comes to subarea allocation matters ST likes to hold its cards close to its chest/vest. They do the very minimum of what is required of them with regard to public reporting of capital and O&M outlays broken out by subarea. If one wants any additional details about such allocations, say on a specific capital project, one typically has to request the information.

        I commented about the Stride 522 project cost split yesterday (see below) but didn’t break it out as I didn’t have time then to look it up. The ST3 plan called for the North King Co subarea to spend $318 million for capital expenses and $238 million of O&M expenses. I believe the former also includes a contribution to the cost for the bus base in Canyon Park but I don’t what that allocation amounts to.

        Fwiw, this is how the BRT projects approved in ST3 were broken out by subarea:

        Subarea, Capital, O&M
        (in millions):
        Sno Co, $42, $128
        N King Co, $318, $238
        S King Co, $257, $168
        E King Co, $1,195, $668

      6. I find it interesting that the SnoCo subarea will be charged about 3x its capital outlay for ops expenses for its share of the Stride 405 line.

      7. I don’t think this is a “who is paying for it” problem.

        No, its more of a “this is what they want” problem. The suburban cities wanted this as a way to connect to Link. They really weren’t interested in the network.

        The main advantage of extending it would be to improve the network. It would likely end at Shoreline College, but as you wrote, there will definitely be another bus that would get riders there. The big advantage of extending it is that you connect to Aurora (and to a lesser extent Greenwood). Aurora Village to the SR 522 corridor becomes a fast, frequent two-seat ride. Instead it will be a three-seat ride.

        As for your other examples:

        Woodinville doesn’t add much to the network. It eliminates a transfer for only a handful of riders. If the 311 is terminated at the UW, it means only riders in the middle of the way would use STride as a way to get to Seattle. Even then, a lot of people would transfer at Bellevue.

        An extension to Edmonds is more analogous. Not only is Edmonds CC a decent anchor, but it means crossing SR 99. That means you connect to Swift. But the argument for it isn’t as strong. Lynnwood is a real destination — 145th isn’t. Going to Edmonds CC means riders can go from Swift to … what exactly … UW Bothell? Yeah, OK. And maybe Bellevue (which is a long ways away). It still works, and probably should be pursued, but it is tiny compared to the number of people headed to the SR 522 corridor from Aurora.

        In both cases you would need to cooperate with the various agencies. This project wasn’t cheap. They spent a lot on building extra lanes, so that the buses can run unimpeded by traffic (which is why it won’t go to Woodinville). I don’t think it is a big issue with 155th/165th to Shoreline College. I think 196th and 200th (in Lynnwood) get congested though (but it has been a very long time since I lived up there). The various agencies could chip in for service (since they wouldn’t have to cover as much) and other agencies would have to add BAT/bus lanes. It probably won’t happen, but it probably should.

      8. I find it interesting that the SnoCo subarea will be charged about 3x its capital outlay for ops expenses for its share of the Stride 405 line.

        Yeah, they aren’t building a big parking garage (as part of this project) or huge freeway interchange. Nor are they adding lanes (like this project). WSDOT is doing all the work.

      9. I find it interesting that the SnoCo subarea will be charged about 3x its capital outlay for ops expenses for its share of the Stride 405 line.
        It was SnoCo’s decision not to invest in making the buses run faster. Everett rail took all the available capital dollars. They’re just buying service. Hence the mismatch.

      10. The East subarea cost doesn’t surprise me — because Renton is part of East King rather than South King. Only the Burien and TIBS Stride stops are in South King and only the Lynnwood and Canyon Park stops are in Snohomish.

        I’m more bothered by the North King share as the S3 routing to 145th rather than Roosevelt through Lake City was always “justified” because we have been led to believe that the reason was because East King was paying for S3. Now we know that’s not true. Given entire program cost of S1, S2 and S3, it appears that North King should have had a bigger say on the routing. I even wonder if ST has a income/ race discrimination lawsuit exposure with so much of S3 coming from North King funds.

        Finally, remember that vehicles and the OMF are a capital cost.

      11. I think 196th is getting widened to create BAT lanes for SWIFT, which is pretty equivalent to S3 on 145th?

        Snohomish’s low share of 405 Stride makes sense because most of that capital spend is for the freeway rebuilds in 44th and 85th, both of which are in East King.

        If S3 was routed through Lake City to Roosevelt, North King’s Stride ridership would be far higher and therefore its share of O&M would be higher.

        Al – I think it would be more accurate to say Seattle’s guidance on Stride was “don’t care” so it was routed through 145th. If SDOT or the council wanted to go to bat for Lake City it could have, but it chose to focus on 130th instead.

      12. If there’s a compelling need to connect Shoreline CC and Aurora to the SR522 corridor, then KCM can run a route to serve that. All of the S3 infrastructure is designed to be shared by KCM, so North King is still getting good value for its ‘share’ of the bus infrastructure. This KCM route probably wouldn’t loop through the station but just pass by on 5th.

        Metro Connects’ Frequent Route 1019 seems to address well this specific set of trips. I think I’d rather have 1019 as proposed and S3 as proposed, rather than S3 to Shoreline CC and no 1019 (as a counterfactual) … could do both S3 and 1019 to Shoreline CC, but then that’s a significant overlap of resources.

      14. If there’s a compelling need to connect Shoreline CC and Aurora to the SR522 corridor, then KCM can run a route to serve that.

        That would mean unnecessarily doubling up service. This bus will run frequently, and there is no way Metro will want to overlap 90% of it. If this was extended, it would likely get more riders per hour AND reduce some three-seat rides to two-seat.

        As far as people attending community colleges, they come from all over. You don’t have to attend the college in your district. I believe the districts were just created to make sure that various areas get state funding. But again, it wouldn’t be just about getting to Shoreline CC — it is just as important, if not more important to connect to Aurora.

      15. Not everybody goes to their closest community college. My roommate in Seattle is attending Shoreline and previously attended Bellevue, because he thinks they have better programs than the Seattle Colleges. In some cases it’s because of a specific teacher, or the nearest college doesn’t have that field..

  4. I notice that many of the westbound (inbound where most people will board) stops are open to the south-southwest if the prototype shelter is installed like the drawing. This is the prevailing wind direction on bad weather days. That also makes the waiting rider face noisy heavy traffic, moving at 40-50 mph with the road noise bouncing off of the glass behind the stop.

    Should shelters be oriented so that the glass faces west rather than north? Should there be treatments to make the waiting quieter? Should there be a safety barrier to keep out-of-control cars from hitting waiting passengers? Sometimes, Metro puts the shelter glass between the shelter and the street, for example.

    I don’t live in this area so I can’t specifically comment on the waiting rider experience. I merely wonder if this is a concern — and its riders that could give valuable input on this.

    1. This might be a bit off topic, but why is everyone assuming ST’s new projected $11.5 billion shortfall in the N. King Co. subarea is accurate? The last time I raised the issue of ST’s budget estimates was when the estimated shortfall was $4 billion. The Urbanist has a long article today with a lot of rosy projections on additional federal, state, county, and local funding — some of which range from $46 million to $3.8 BILLION on the state level (now there is a gap) — and some budget cuts, but nothing on the true cost of the second transit tunnel.

      Does anyone really believe Seattle voters will approve a HB 1304 levy for $9 billion to pay for ST 3 twice, or that $11.1 billion in state, federal, country and local grants or revenue will materialize, or even a small fraction of that? At least Seattle Subway should finally understand HB 1304 was all about ST 3.

      If you were on the ST Board and a politician would you believe ST’s current budget estimates when ST 3 was just passed in 2016, and race out to place a levy on a ballot or approve a bunch of cuts based on those “new” estimates? I wouldn’t? Instead I would look for a new CEO.

  5. Metro has a lot of choices when it comes to altering their network in response to this new route. There are several routes that converge on Lake City from the south. The two key ones are the 372 and 522. Both go to Bothell. Both should have frequent coverage south of 145th, as those areas are densely populated, and lack other coverage. On the other hand, sending them to Bothell means redundant coverage, and wasting service hours that could be better spent elsewhere. There are several choices:

    1) End in Kenmore. This saves a little bit of service, but not a lot. This is the only existing turnaround north of 145th.

    2) End at 130th (where the 41 ends). This is the other extreme. There are several problems with this. This would create a pretty big coverage hole on Lake City Way. The riders would have to catch the modern equivalent of the 65 (which would likely terminate at the 145th station). If you live to the west of Lake City, this isn’t too bad (https://goo.gl/maps/iuZFSqnAN1PvgCrn6). If you live on the other side of Lake City Way, though, it would be a real pain (https://goo.gl/maps/uY5RuRJDHngfwsrq8). Making matters worse, same direction transfers (for folks who just want to continue on Lake City Way) just wouldn’t work. A trip like this: https://goo.gl/maps/Q7KV42aDWbjD511B8 would require two transfers.

    3) A combination of 1 and 2. Replace the 522 with a bus that goes from the Green Lake park and ride (or maybe even the U-District) to Kenmore, and send the 372 to 130th (where it ends on weekends anyway). This would be my default position, assuming we can’t do any of the following:

    4) Find turnaround and layover space around 145th. There are a number of possibilities, none of which look great. For example, the bus could left on 143rd, then make a series of right turns (https://goo.gl/maps/s9m8BWamaysiRUrZ9). The bus could layover on Lake City Way itself, close to the existing bus stop (just south of 145th) — there are plenty of potential comfort stations. You would have to add a bus lane there, while taking away the northbound one (which would no longer be necessary). You would also need to add a traffic signal at 143rd. The biggest drawback would be the transfer. At a minimum you would add a stop at 32nd or 145th (for northbound riders) but that would still be a bit of a schlep (https://goo.gl/maps/GULnAC2sj1JfXJUp9). It would be worse for southbound riders (https://goo.gl/maps/MhPmnJmdQXdwdoRF7).

    This is why the decision (mentioned in my previous comment) to move the stops makes things worse. If they kept the old bus stops, a southbound transfer (https://goo.gl/maps/tY3Z2wGqYVePCxzr8) or northbound transfer (https://goo.gl/maps/4fGMnJ6mTsYwLUP47) wouldn’t be quite so bad. Not ideal, but at least not terrible.

    5) Split the difference, and end at Lake Forest Park. This is still not as good as ending at 145th, but the transfers would be ideal (essentially the same bus stop) and you save a fair amount of time over going to Kenmore. It takes about 2 minutes to go from 145th to Lake Forest Park, and another 9 minutes to get to Kirkland Park and Ride. So if there is a way to turn around (and layover) that could be an ideal compromise. You also connect to another bus (the 331) and another destination (Lake Forest Park Town Center) even if both are minor.

  6. Yes, East King pays for Route 522, so it is unlikely to be extended to Shoreline CC.

    Before Route 65 is sent to SCC, let’s see what happens in fall 2021 and whether ST funds the NE 130th Street station; it would make sense for that station to open with Lynnwood Link. If NE 130th Street had a Link station, Metro might choose to have a crosstown between Shoreline CC and Lake City via the Link station and serve NE 125th Street and North 130th Street. The North and NE 145th Street corridor has a full interchange and much traffic congestion; it is not a great place for transit. North 155th Street is much calmer and the Route 330 pathway has a common stop transfer with the E Line. Metro may have to backfill the work that Route 522 does along SR-522 south of NE 145th Street. Metro may not have additional service subsidy when Lynnwood Link opens. Metro Connects is uncertain due to the funding shortage; the public process may generate better network concepts. Will ST3 S3 be delayed? How long?

    1. Before Route 65 is sent to SCC, let’s see what happens in fall 2021 and whether ST funds the NE 130th Street station; it would make sense for that station to open with Lynnwood Link. If NE 130th Street had a Link station, Metro might choose to have a crosstown between Shoreline CC and Lake City via the Link station and serve NE 125th Street and North 130th Street.

      They could have both. Essentially send the 75 over 130th, then up Greenwood to Shoreline College. Send the 65 to 145th, then stair stepping to the same place (via 155th, Aurora, 160th). That is what the long range plan has (click “2040” and the “Metro Frequent” check boxes here: http://www.kcmetrovision.org/plan/service-map/). That all makes sense to me.

      I think the route across 125th/130th is a given once the 130th station is added. I’ve wanted to send it south on Greenwood (to better connect to Ballard). I could just see it ending at Greenwood (looping around on 3rd, then laying over by the library). I could see the eastern terminus being at the Fred Meyer in Lake City (where the 41 ends). That would leave a short (possibly very frequent) line from Lake City to Bitter Lake. But I’ve warmed to the idea of connecting it to the 75 — although again I think I would just terminate at the Broadview Library.

      I think a bus that keeps goes north from the 145th station, then east to Shoreline College makes sense as well. The 65 seems like the best fit for that (since this bus won’t do it).

  7. Woodinville. The network would probably be stronger if all S3 trips extended to and from Woodinville. It is a real place with a street grid, light industry, retail, and multifamily housing. ST complained that the ST3 concept had a reliability issue as half the trips extended to/from Woodinville and half turned back at the UWB. ST3 created the issue by being cheap with service hours. Another solution would be to extend all the trips to Woodinville. A transit center under I-405 seems quite odd and a noisy place to wait for transfers. Will the shuttle have 10-minute headway to match S3?

    1. The transit center by the freeway exists to allow transfers between the two STRIDE lines. Neither Woodinville nor Bothell work for this purpose unless you are willing to detour the 405 and add 10+ minutes to everyone’s travel time.

      I agree ST is being cheap with service hours, although there are other solutions for Woodinville besides a shuttle to I-405. I could see the 239 going there (replacing the detour to Brickyard P&R) between Totem Lake and Bothell. Or, I can see the 230 doing it (replacing the current tail in NE Bothell). The key is that whatever bus connects Woodinville to STRIDE should do something else. It shouldn’t just end there. A single purpose route like what ST is proposing is likely to get terrible ridership.

      1. The key is that whatever bus connects Woodinville to STRIDE should do something else. It shouldn’t just end there (at the I-405 stop).

        Yeah, I agree. There aren’t a lot of great options though. Taking over any part of a Metro route seems like it would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. The only thing I can come up with is an extension of the 105 (a Community Transit/Snohomish County bus). The only drawback is that the 105 runs infrequently (every hour — although that may be the pandemic schedule). Maybe though, it could run up to Canyon Park and just end there. It would add service along that part of Bothell Way. If Community Transit can squeeze 40 minutes out of the 105, then ST could run half the shuttles up to Canyon Park (creating 20 minute frequency along that part of Bothell Way).

        I’m not sure where they would get the money though. No matter what, ridership would be low. Right now, the Woodinville section gets about 500 trips altogether, which is your baseline. About 100 of those are to UW Bothell. So any extension is likely to carry few riders. The whole point of the extension is to not leave Woodinville-Bellevue commuters stranded. This should increase the ridership of that bus. It won’t have a lot of riders, but neither will anything else, and it will be pretty cheap.

      2. “If Community Transit can squeeze 40 minutes out of the 105,…”

        This isn’t a likely outcome. CT has a slew of higher priorities its struggling to fund within its limited budget.

    2. I agree. Ideally all trips could extend to Woodinville, but since it is a low density suburb that doesn’t get that much ridership, I’d actually be fine with the 20-minute headways. It does look like being cheap with service hours, but it could also be seen as right-sizing service levels. Certainly having a fraction of the trips be short runs isn’t too complicated to be used; it’s used across many Metro and ST routes including route 522. As I recall, ST’s eventual objection to this was reliability issues, which I would assume could be fixed with the schedule padding I suggest above for the west end. This is a tried and true strategy to preserve reliability after an unreliable segment, and only needs to be done in one direction; no need to reinvent the wheel.

      Their reinvention of the wheel involves a brand new bus from Woodinville to Bellevue at peak, and a short bus from Woodinville to the Bothell transfer hub off-peak, which is well outside the scope of the representative project and solves completely different problems while not doing that good of a job solving the original problem. It’s not horrible or even bad, it’s just not optimal in my opinion. And I think it’s quite ironic considering that they originally wanting to be cheap with service hours here. The Woodinville connector will be every 15 minutes all day, and will be extended to Bellevue every 15 minutes during peak, so it is more frequent than the original 20-minute extension to Woodinville. The actual service cost will probably be comparable to just extending every trip to Woodinville with the schedule padding.

      1. Ultimately, I think ST is being cheap. How many extra service hours are we really talking about? It’s like 5-7 extra minutes to a 30+ minute route. Is the traffic in Woodinville really that bad that you can’t extend a bus there?

        But, even if the STRIDE bus doesn’t go to Woodinville, extending or restructuring a Metro route makes much more sense than introducing a dedicated shuttle.

      2. I don’t think cheapness is the only issue. Reliability is the big one. I don’t think they can get the BAT/Bus lanes to Woodinville to avoid congestion. The bulk of the ridership of this bus will come from Kenmore. You don’t want those riders waiting an extra ten minutes for the bus, and then having a couple of them back to back. Not for the tiny amount of ridership that the Woodinville bus would generate.

        There are only about 250 a riders a day from Woodinville on the old 522. Fifty of those riders got off at UW Bothell. 5 to 7 minutes on a 30 minute ride means adding 1/6 of the service time for way less than 1/6 the extra riders. It doesn’t add up.

        Of course they could do better than the shuttle, but this is all part of the bizarro world of different agencies all trying to do the same sort of thing with different pots of money, and different promises to different contingencies. In an ideal world we would have an all-day 311 (truncated to the UW). But that would likely require more money than either Metro or ST has, along with lots of cooperation between the two agencies.

    3. I’m skeptical of the value of extending this to Woodinville. I think you would get way more riders if you extended it to Shoreline CC (via the stair steps of 155th, Aurora, 160th).

      The problem with Woodinville (other than being a low density suburb) is geography. If you are headed to a Link location, then it is a long way to go. Imagine if they did extend this, and also ran a 311 — truncated to the UW — at the same time. Now consider what people would take to get places:

      311 — Northgate, Roosevelt, UW, Capitol Hill, downtown and places south.
      I-405 STride — Lynnwood, Bellevue
      This STride — Lake Forest Park, Kenmore, Bothell

      The only significant destination on that last list is UW Bothell, and the shuttle will at least get riders reasonably close.

      Of course they probably won’t run a truncated 311 all day. Fair enough. But ridership from a place like Woodinville (a low density suburb) is very peak oriented. People have cars, but they don’t like driving in heavy traffic. In the middle of the day, they are far more likely to drive to Kenmore than someone in say, Lake City. The one area where they would take transit is downtown Seattle. But even in the middle of the day those riders will likely head to downtown Bellevue and transfer to Link. An all-day bus to Bellevue would be of more value than an extension. An all-day 311 (truncated at UW) would be even better.

      I also think it would be more cost effective. An all-day 311 (or something similar) also connects Totem Lake to the UW. Yeah, sure, so does the 255, but it is godawful slow. Something that connects the main UW campus, the SR 520 freeway stations (for transfers to Redmond and Kirkland), Totem Lake, Brickyard, UW Bothell (sort-of) would be transformative. It would get lots of riders along the way, at relatively little cost (the bus would be fast). Adding Woodinville is really just a bonus. If Woodinville really has the potential ridership that people think it does, then that route is what it should have — not an extension of this line.

    4. Fun fact: of the 25 largest active construction projects in the region, #23 is 1,200 units for Woodin Creek Village Apartments (7 of the 25 are ST projects), which on Google street view looks like a very nice, dense development. Woodinville’s town center might have a nifty bit of density in a few years. But even with a few thousands apartments dropped into the middle of what is otherwise a low density edge city, it still doesn’t make sense to serve directly with Stride because of reliability (Ross addressed this well elsewhere)

      I’m not too worried about getting Woodinville good service – it’s only 10 minutes on bike from the town center to the Stride transit center they are going to build, and we expect many neighborhoods to walk 10 minutes to their closest Link station.

      https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/subscriber-only/2020/06/05/largest-construction-projects.html

    5. What does S3 really offer to a Woodinville rider?

      It will take 22 minutes to go from Bothell to Shoreline station (and another 17 minute ride to Downtown Seattle after waiting for a Link train). There are some destinations on the S3 line but not many that will attract a rider from Woodinville.

      An express bus from Woodinville to Bellevue would provide direct access to Downtown Bellevue as well as some destinations at 405 Stride stops — and Downtown Seattle would take about the same time to reach on East Link and will probably be less crowded.

      1. That seems to be what ST staff has concluded. The Woodinville STX route is included in the S3 EIS because that is the relevant representative project, but the recommended route is functionally a 405 Stride express overlay.

        Thankfully with BRT infrastructure, it’s very straightforward to switch around express bus routes.

  8. IIRC, the 522 Stride line cost was split between the East King Co and North King Co subareas in the financial plan adopted for ST3. I believe N King Co picks up the cost from Lake Forest park westward to the Shoreline South Link station.

  9. Do we know anything about the Stride fleet other than how the buses will be painted? I’d like to know if the buses will have interior bike racks like Community Transit’s buses.

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